For Blog Post #5 on "Northern Realities, Northern Literacies" and "The Doodles in Context." Feel free to answer just one question and respond to just one colleague.
What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of the idea of contrastive (intercultural) rhetoric? Has the issue of contrastive (intercultural) rhetoric come up in your tutoring or teaching of second language writers? If so, how?
Describe your reactions to Brice's narrative about Phillip.
What do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of the idea of contrastive (intercultural) rhetoric? Has the issue of contrastive (intercultural) rhetoric come up in your tutoring or teaching of second language writers? If so, how?
Describe your reactions to Brice's narrative about Phillip.
In the "Northern Realities, Northern Literacies" article, I was struck by the idea of creating an environment where the student feels like an "honored guest" as opposed to a humble penitent. Although I don't discount the difficulties we face as tutors, it's important to remember how intimidating (and in many cultures, humiliating) it might be for someone to ask for help...particularly in an environment where colonization is a subtext. Which is not to say all tutors are white Americans--it's just that it happens to be my particular lens. I appreciated the idea of learning politeness in the structure of other cultures because it's important...I'd love if we could address the concept of "negotiation" and talk different strategies for different contexts.
ReplyDeleteYes, I agree negotiating is key. Grammar rules are one thing but as the article shows the thesis can be negotiated so in this sense structure and organization are probably good candidates. I've had instructors who are very insistent on having the thesis up front or signposting, etc. But when I read scholarly articles, at least in literature, I see those conventions are so seldom followed. It seems like once someone becomes a scholar they start writing however they wish. At the same students, and mostly international students, suffer under these conventions just because they are students. It seems like double standards.
DeleteWhen reading Brice's narrative about Phillip, I was reminded of some of my previous international rhetoric students. They would often become frustrated at not being able to find the right language to articulate their point. Early on, I mistakenly spoke more slowly and assumed that my students were confused/needed something clarified. In reality, they just needed more time to collect their thoughts. Since then, I've had to do an intricate dance of when to gloss a concept or repeat myself vs when to assume that my point landed clearly. I've also found some luck "hanging a lantern on the problem" as they say--I've discussed with my students some of the communication issues that may arise. This strategy does not always work well with shyer students, so I'm curious how others have navigated problems with negotiation.
ReplyDeleteThis is a great point, and I’d wager it applies to shyer students of all stripes. Brice’s example about tutors who fill silences they’re uncomfortable with, not realizing that the students may be about to speak (or, as Dan says here, may just be collecting their thoughts), reminded me of an experience last week with a student who’s very fluent in English, but tends to be more reserved. She took some time responding to my prompting questions – and gradually, I figured out that my questions weren’t unclear or unhelpful, but that she was simply reflecting on them at her own pace.
Delete- Cassandra
I liked Brice's idea of a compromise in section 5. Not being a US native, it took me a long while to adjust myself to the idea of a thesis at the beginning where I pretty much bluntly say what I am going to talk about and then methodically, as if in cold blood, proceed to do so. For me writing is a process and that process rarely, if ever, begins with a clearly stated thesis. Actually it ends with it - the thesis comes as the reward for all the effort put into the research and the writing. So frontloading it seems unnatural like putting the cart before the horse. However, I understand I cannot drag my writer along this winding road of research where I hop from one idea to another and often digress unsure where I'm headed. So here is the function of a thesis: it keeps the essay tight and focused from the very beginning. It gives clarity and justifies the presence of every next sentence. But I still like to impress my reader in the conclusion with the answer to the "so what" question which is the importance of the topic. It must have some universal application for humanity which I reveal at the end. It's like this "aha" moment - like a trick I have been keeping up my sleeve and now it lets me leave the stage with applause. I think it's a nice compromise.
ReplyDeleteWhen you save your thesis for the end, how do you begin your paper? Do you begin with a statement that structures your argument without actually revealing what that argument is? I've seen papers like that from American undergraduates. They begin with more of a statement than a thesis, but then elaborate that statement into an argument in their conclusion. I didn't learn to right a "thesis" in my high school rhetoric class. My teacher had her own term--in her class a thesis was a CIS or controlling ideas statement. It seems to fit well with your description of how a thesis functions.
DeleteI think that same teacher may have written "La la la" on one of my wandering papers when my ideas weren't so well-regulated. I digressed a lot when I didn't like my topic. Historically opossums and Shakespeare have been my favorite detours.
I drew a great deal of inspiration from Jennifer Brice’s piece this week, both in terms of tutoring and of conceptualizing my final paper for this course. “Northern Realities” strikes an admirable balance between a first-person case study and a list of best practices, many of which (to Brice’s credit) encourage cultural sensitivity, and characterize the writing-center experience as a two-way street. Apart from Brice’s acknowledgement of the history of colonization as it relates to tutoring sessions, I especially appreciate this idea of roundabout criticism: naming the phenomenon rather than faulting the person. During my own meetings with students, I try to avoid criticisms such as, “You’re not being clear here” or “You’re using semicolons incorrectly” – but I think I could be more tactful and encouraging with the kind of deliberate indirectness Brice suggests in her example: “Comma splices tend to happen when a writer gets swept up in the enthusiasm of good ideas.”
ReplyDeleteThe section in “Northern Realities” about negotiation also proved thought-provoking. In particular, I love the notion of the writing tutor as a guide who helps students understand the many different options available to them, rather than as an “expert” on the “right” way to write a paper.
- Cassandra
I really appreciated this look into another culture's writing practices. It brought up a lot of questions I have about what we are teaching and why but failed to help me draw any conclusions of my own. Why was Phillip's way of telling a story "wrong"? Her critique of the essay was that he should have a thesis and get to the point of the essay sooner. But, do we all need to write the same way? We should explain to students that what we are teaching them is how you write if you want to sound like an academic from the United States or craft an essay that will be persuasive to someone in the United States. Would someone with the same cultural background as Phillip find his method of writing more persuasive before or after the changes that were made to make it more appropriate for a university setting that runs on rules made by white people? If one of us read the essay as a reader and not as a tutor before any changes were made, would we appreciate what we learned along the way more thoroughly because we had to work harder to get there? Thinking through all of the short stories I've read, the ones that meander through the tale and aren't forthright about their point seem to be the most memorable and change the way I see the world with more impact. Should the classes we teach be called U.S. Rhetoric? Should we offer classes for students who plan to return to their home country/culture to develop their rhetorical techniques that are specific to their countries?
ReplyDeleteI love these questions. I had similar feelings while reading. We discussed in my writing pedagogy class last night having kids write the classic story arch in their creative stories, and some
Deleteof my young, budding teacher classmates, were really stuck on this idea of learning the rules before breaking them and wanting to teach their kids how to follows the rules because other teachers might not be so lenient, and i just wanted to hug them all because the class story arch isn't a rule, it's just, as i'm sure you know, a common way to create tension and really quite overused. I would never suggest anyone prescribe, especially to such young children, any specifc structure, for fear it would crush their playing and personally feel like we need more children to break the rules rather than continually impose them. Each story and essay needs to be the best at what it is, not what we want anyone subjectively wants it to be. Within our culture and across cultures.
A bit late here, but, I enjoyed the Brice piece. In particular, the section on deference politeness is a reminder to, even in everyday conversation, to take a step back and give people time to speak. People with whom I'm comfortable I unintentionally tend to respond with equal and opposite reaction conversationally. If a friend is quiet or slow to respond, I tend to babble on; if they talk a lot, I tend to be slow and more thoughtful. I suppose this a balancing mechanism, but having a little deference politeness with those who are slower to respond might allow my brain to catch up to my mouth (as it's really not comfortable for me to babble on) and more insightful discussion.
ReplyDeleteI appreciate Brice's approach to working with students from other cultures, but I wondered how she recommended learning about an unfamiliar culture before the tutoring session. Is she suggesting a bit of research in advance of the meeting or perhaps a conversation with the student to develop a rapport? Brice's knowledge about Native Alaskans could only have accumulated with time and experience. She was even familiar with the narrative patterns of Native Alaskan folklore! It would have been interesting to know how she proceeded before she gained these insights.
ReplyDeleteMany of her insights are similar to advice that we've encountered in other readings, but I found both the concept of deference politeness and the emphasis on listening helpful. I worry that as a new tutor, I talk too much. When I listen to other tutoring sessions around the room, I feel like the experienced tutors usually speak less than their writers. When they are the one speaking, it seems like they are usually asking questions to clarify what the writer has said or to draw the writer out.
I had wondered about how to proceed with L2 students who structure their arguments in indirect ways. Brice suggested a change to the practice of the dominant culture, but in a compromise was achieved. I've suggested changes, but I have not insisted on them. I was torn between either helping the student learn the conventions of American academic English or accepting that the final text would retain something of an "accent," as an earlier reading suggested.